The following is an interview with JDL Chairman Irv Rubin by the JDL Web Staff about the December 2000 confrontation with the KKK and other neo-nazis in Skokie, Illinois.

Why did you and other JDL members go back to Skokie on December 16, 2000?

Skokie once again became the focal point for klansmen and other racists to advocate the murder of Jews. We were notified through the media on November 11, 2000 that a KKK group based in Mercer, Wisconsin was intending to use this "Jewtown" (Skokie) as a platform for their beliefs. Skokie first came to the attention of world Jewry in 1978, when Frank Collin and his group of ragtag Nazis from Chicago stated their intention to have a rally and recruit other Nazis to finally finish Hitler's job. The Jewish Defense League took a solemn pledge to never allow such an event to take place. Skokie, with its unique Jewish community, including thousands of survivors of the concentration camps, is not a town that can afford to be a passive host to the likes of Nazis.

Whether Nazis wear sheets and hoods, or shave their heads, or are Holocaust deniers, the League believes people must always stand up. Every person who cares about what happened to the Jews during the Holocaust must take a stand. Skokie isn't an intellectual exercise; it has become a battleground. If we allow Nazis to goose-step through the streets of Skokie, insulting the remnant of Jews who survived Hitler's inferno, then we give them carte blanche to do anything they want to do in the name of free speech. We believe the First Amendment doesn't give these individuals the right advocate murder. Midwestern JDL leader, Jonathan Epstein, stated that a community must be able to set standards of decency; a Nazi rally in the heart of Skokie is simply an obscenity. JDL had no choice -- we had to go there, and we had to do everything humanly possible to stop them cold. If Jews would have fought back over seventy years ago, we wouldn't be screaming about the Holocaust today.

Some would argue that you may indeed be overly concerned with a handful of malcontents. Prominent Jews like Dennis Prager believe there "are more flat-earth advocates than Nazis in America today," and that antisemitism is surely on the decline. Since 50,000,000 people voted for Gore-Lieberman, wouldn't it be safe to assume that America is insulated from the rhetoric of racist groups?

It is true that millions and millions of people voted for a Jew who wears his religion on his sleeve; Lieberman is not exactly a Jew in hiding. While JDL did not endorse Gore-Lieberman, it is comforting to know so many fellow Americans voted for a Jew to be one heartbeat away from the oval office. Yet this doesn't diminish the fact that racist, Nazi terror is still problematic to Jewish existence in this country. The Nazis came to Skokie to recruit more members and possibly find more lone wolves like Benjamin Smith [a member of Matt Hale's World Church of the Creator who went on a murderous rampage in July 1998] and Buford Furrow [a member of Richard Butler's Aryan Nations who attacked a Jewish community center, wounding two young boys, a teenage counselor and an older woman, and fatally shot postal worker Joseph Ileto].

They were even willing to risk getting thoroughly beaten in the streets of Skokie in order to make an appearance. The Skokie community felt the problem should have been ignored. We couldn't disagree more; we believe negative attention is better than no attention at all. When the world sees Jews fighting back, supported by sympathetic Gentiles likewise risking arrest, the Nazis will get the impression that they aren't welcome in the town of Skokie. Indeed, Mike McQueeny, leader of the Klan and organizer of the December 16 rally, grudgingly acknowledged that he wasn't given a warm welcome -- he was pelted with snowballs and his message was not heard. This is statement alone is partial victory for the forces of good over evil.

What was your greatest obstacle in achieving your goal in stopping the Klan, and how did JDL overcome it?

Skokie police and Cook County law enforcement ironically became part and parcel of a support effort for the racists. Not only did law enforcement provide the Nazis with transportation, they made the anti-Nazi groups walk over a mile to attempt to confront the haters. JDL had a plan, however; we knew we had to get there early enough in the day to take the high ground and prevent the Klan from organizing a rally on the courthouse steps. The Klan was supposed to hold the rally from 1:00-3:00 p.m.; we got there at 8:00 a.m. Nobody needed a permit to occupy those courthouse steps. When we got there, law enforcement set down the ground rules: We would have to leave the vicinity until it was secured by police, and we would be searched when we were finally given access.

Here's an account from an independent observer allowed to monitor JDL's actions. I can verify that it is completely accurate.

The Jewish Defense League promised that the KKK march in Skokie would be stopped peacefully if possible, and by any means if necessary! The promise was fulfilled (the KKK was unable to march and tried to hold a rally instead). JDL does take responsibilty for the miltant effort against the Nazis, but the violence against the police was perpetrated by communist and socialist groups in attendence. In a display of cowardice, these groups attacked police cars (breaking windshields and headlights) and threw manure with their bare hands at Skokie police. The Jewish Defense League went there to battle Nazis, not the cops. Groups like Anti Racist Action and the Spartacus League (admitted communist organizations) had a different agenda that day. Not only did they want to take on the Klan and Nazis, they desperately wanted to turn the effort into an anti-cop rally. While we vehemently disagree with the tactics of the police, we don't support what took place against the officers that day. Communist and socialist rhetoric and chants, which compared cops to the Klan, made JDL members feel very uncomfortable. They also verbally chastised the JDL by yelling "JDL is KKK," and they openly supported "Palestinian" aspirations.

Of the people arrested, it should be pointed out that only two were from the JDL, and that was only because they were grabbed in a general roundup by the Skokie police and Sheriff's deputies. One major leader of the KKK, an Imperial Wizard from Alabama, was arrested when he was caught loading a firearm at the scene. (The cops got lucky with this arrest.)

It was interesting to note that none of the uniformed police had badges or name tags. Clearly, this was so they could beat protesters with impunity. It was determined that a bus company provided the Klan transportation to the event; the company explained that it was manipulated into the belief that it was carrying undercover cops. The bus pulled up at the courthouse and unloaded the KKK. They were quickly escorted by the police through the courthouse, to the area that they were to use for the rally. THIS WAS A COUNTY GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED EVENT!

No permits were issued; groups requesting permits were told that the courthouse steps were public access and could be used by anyone. Yet when the JDL arrived -- hours before the Klan -- they were not permitted in the area. The area was roped off for "Klan Access" and "Other Access." Under the law, public access means equal access, a concept the county officials don't seem to be aware of.

In the immediate vicinity of the courthouse, the police placed twin metal detectors yards apart from one another, with the signs "Klan Protesters" and "Anti-Klan Protesters" placed above them. The police searched each and every JDL member who arrived at 8:00 a.m. that day. The Klan never came through the area and was not searched by the devices. Obviously, the entire affair was a ruse to convince the public that even handed treatment would be afforded to both groups.

The Klan must have enjoyed the spectacle of the police randomly picking on old people who couldn't move fast enough at their commands, beating them with night sticks and riot batons. Skokie town officials must have been proud of their police that day. They definitely knew how to beat up on defenseless groups trying to exercise their own right to free speech.

From the very inception when news broke that the Klan was coming to Skokie, the town wanted to avoid the Klan rally at all costs. Town elders therefore proposed a separate peace and harmony rally the day after the event at Skokie's Niles High School. This rally was supposedly open to the public. But Skokie officials really wanted to prohibit the involvement of anyone who had physically opposed the Nazis a day before. Visible JDL members like Irv Rubin and Chicago JDL leader Chuck Fogel were made to feel most uncomfortable at that event. And when Chuck Fogel asked Lt. Fowler why his cops took off their badges during the confrontation a day before, Fogel and all other JDL members were forced to leave the auditorium. According to Lt. Fowler, the JDL members were asked to leave because they were trouble makers "asking antagonizing questions." So much for free speech in Skokie!

Cook County and Skokie officials were permitted to use tax money to protect nonresident hate groups and did not offer the same protection to its own citizens. The anti-Klan groups were peacefully protesting until the police started shoving and beating them. Citizens of Skokie and Cook County SHOULD DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY for the dubious actions of their police officers and elected officials!